A Refutation of Cheryl Schatz on 1 Timothy 2:12
This post is a canned response to Cheryl Schatz’s contention that γυναικὶ, “a woman,” in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 refers to one specific woman1. Schatz’s view has cropped up in various discussion groups like CARM and Worthy Boards, and, you might see it in various blogs as well. If you’re thinking about engaging her in a debate or discussion, you might first want to listen to this debate between her and Matt Slick:
http://strivetoenter.com/mmoutreach/matt_slick_cheryl_schatz_2_full.mp3
The two views under consideration here on the meaning of the anarthrous noun γυναικὶ, “a woman,” are the patriarchalist view that γυναικὶ is an indefinite noun referring to any woman, and Cheryl Schatz’s view that γυναικὶ refers to one specific woman. From the start, the patriarchalist view makes better sense in the context. John Calvin, commenting on verse 11, helps us understand how verses 11-15 cohere with the preceding verses:
Let a woman learn in quietness. After having spoken of dress, he now adds with what modesty women ought to conduct themselves in the holy assembly. And first he bids them learn quietly; for quietness means silence, that they may not take upon them to speak in public. This he immediately explains more clearly, by forbidding them to teach. 2
As Calvin explains, Paul continues on the topic of modest conduct by forbidding women to teach or exercise authority over men. From verses 9-10 we know that Paul is addressing the conduct of women (plural). Since context determines the meaning of a word, there is presumptive evidence for understanding “a woman” to refer to any of the women (plural) whom Paul is addressing. Rev. Lane Keister explains the reason for the shift from “women” to “a woman”:
I believe that Paul has in mind already the reasons in verses 13-14, which require a singular to connect with Eve as a representative. Therefore, Paul is using a generic singular to make his point. Mounce argues that a general principle is being stated here, and that the singular is most apropos. I think this is borne out further by Paul’s argument in verses 13-14, which speak of Adam and Eve as representative of male and female.3
But Schatz interprets in a way that disrupts the flow and coherence that verses 11-15 have with the preceding verses. Indeed, she claims there is a “sharp” shift to the singular4, and thereby isolates verses 11-15 from the immediately preceding verses. First, we normally read a pericope from start to finish so that contextual resources are provided to us as we move from one verse to the next. With Schatz’s approach, the reader must wait until he reaches verse 15 to decrypt what Paul meant by “a woman” in verses 11 and 12 because Schatz has made verse 15 the interpretive key for 11 and 12. Second, rather than identify one situation which makes sense for the whole pericope, Schatz fabricates a new situation where just one specific woman is being proscribed from teaching or exercising authority over one specific man in the congregation at Ephesus. Thus, for Schatz, the situation does not involve the women (plural) whom Paul has been addressing, but rather one specific woman. Again, this fabrication is borne out of her misunderstanding of verse 15.
The conjunction γὰρ, “for,” at the beginning of verse 13 could be understood in the causal or illustrative sense. The causal sense would mean that Paul is giving us reasons for his proscription. The illustrative sense would mean that Paul is simply giving us an example. Dr. David K. Huttar argues convincingly for a causal γὰρ in his article “Causal Gar in 1 Timothy 2:13” .5 But if γὰρ is used in the illustrative sense, then Paul did not ground his proscription in the order of creation. Instead, he appealed to Genesis 2-3 as an example of what happens when a woman teaches a man false doctrine. This could still be taken as justification for proscribing any woman from teaching any man false doctrine. After all, why would this example apply to only one woman? Also, how does the fact Adam was created first illustrate the claim that only one specific woman is not to teach false doctrine? The illustrative sense fails to explain verses 13-14 as well as the causal sense. Therefore, we should understand verses 13-14 as reasons for Paul’s proscription in verse 12. Since the presumptive evidence favors our initial conclusion that any man and any woman are meant in verse 12 and verses 13-14 function as reasons in Paul’s argument, the most natural reading takes Adam and Eve as representatives of any man and any woman.
At this point it may be asked how verses 13-14 function in Paul’s argument. In verses 13-14, Paul employs a common rabbinic method of referring to the Old Testament called a summary citation. The reference serves as a summary of the subject. In this citation, Paul gives two reasons for his proscription. The first is from the order of creation. The second is from the fall.
In his first reason, I submit that Paul is alluding to the steward-helper relationship between Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2:7, God created Adam and gave him the garden mandate not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (2:16-17). Adam was hereby entrusted with stewardship of God’s word and consequently of moral life in the garden. God then said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him” (see Grudem for the meaning of ‘ēzer kenegdô, EFBT).6 By himself, Adam was not sufficient to accomplish the work God had set before him. He needed a helper. There was no suitable helper found among the animals (2:20). So, God created Eve. Eve was not around when God gave Adam the garden mandate, but apparently he taught it to her because she repeated it, albeit not exactly, to the serpent (3:2-3). Eve, being created after Adam, was supposed to help him in his stewardship responsibilities. Consider an illustration of this idea: A father tells his first son to remove a boulder from the yard, but, seeing that his first son is unable to do it by himself, he sends his second son out to help. It is understood that the first son is still in charge of the boulder removing project and that the second son receives instruction from and is subordinate to the first. The second son does not take over the project. What this means for Paul’s proscription is that women are not to take over the teaching and leadership duties that belong specifically to the office of the steward of God’s word. Only other men are to be in the position of teaching and exercising authority over men.
In his second reason, we see the consequences of reversing the steward-helper relationship. The first part of verse 14 says, “Adam was not deceived.” He was not deceived by the serpent. Instead, he listened to wife, and God faulted him for it (Genesis 3:17). The implication is that Adam should not have listened to his wife. Why? I think the best explanation is because she was not the proper steward of the garden mandate. She did not have the authority to instruct him. The second part of verse 14 says, “[T]he woman was deceived and has become a transgressor.” Andreas Köstenberger explains the meaning of this:
Eve, Paul implies, was not kept safe at the Fall; she was deceived. Why? Because she left her proper domain under her husband’s care. What happened as a result? She became an easy prey for Satan. How can women under Timothy’s charge (and in churches everywhere) avoid repeating the same mistake? By “childbearing,” that is, by adhering to their God-ordained calling, including a focus on marriage, family, and the home. 1 Timothy 2:15 thus turns out to be Paul’s prescription for women as a lesson learned from the scenario of the Fall described in the preceding verse.7
Eve was tricked by the serpent. The consequence was that she became a transgressor. The identity of womankind with Eve is expressed by Paul’s switch to “the woman” and the perfect tense ἐν παραβάσει γέγονεν, “has come into transgression.” So what is predicated of Eve is predicated of womankind, through the typology. That is, any woman who is typologically represented by Eve has become a transgressor through deception and continues in the state of transgression.
In verse 15, Paul shifts to speaking of any Christian woman who is typologically represented by ‘the woman’. John F. MacArthur says (regarding the future tense):
In verse 14 we read of woman being in sin. In contrast verse 15 speaks of woman being saved through childbearing. The salvation spoken of here is not salvation from sin. It cannot refer to Eve since the future tense is used (“she shall be saved”). Furthermore the use of the plural pronoun “they” indicates that more than one woman is in view. Some think this verse refers to Mary’s being saved by bearing Christ, but that is foreign to the context. The use of the plural pronoun clearly indicates that all women are in view here.8
Now we come to the crux of Schatz’s argument. Essentially, I believe her argument is this: In verse 15, either “she” refers to the specific woman and “they” refers to the woman and her husband, or “she” and “they” have the same antecedent. But “she” and “they” cannot have the same antecedent because the antecedent cannot be both singular and plural. Pronouns must agree with their antecedents in number. Therefore, “she” must refer to the specific woman Paul is correcting, and “they” refers to the woman and her husband. She may further claim “she” refers to “the woman” in verse 14 because it is the nearest candidate for an antecedent.
There are a few of problems here.
First, it should be recognized that the nature of Schatz’s argument as a disjunctive syllogism requires her to eliminate disjuncts to establish her own view. While she may have eliminated the disjunct she tries to pin on the patriarchalist, she presents us with a false dilemma. “[S]he” and “they” in verse 15 do not need to have the same antecedent in the patriarchalists’ view. Instead, the chiastic structure of verses 8-15 reveals the correct pronoun-antecedent relationships:
A (9-10) Christian “women” (plural)
B (11-12) “a woman” (singular indefinite noun) –it means any Christian woman.
C (13) “Eve” (generic / representative woman)
C’ (14) “the woman” (generic / representative woman)
B’ (15a) “she” has the antecedent “a woman”
A’ (15b) “they” has the antecedent “women,” Christian women in context
Women are the topic of both “she” and “they,” but, grammatically, they have different antecedents. The pronoun “she” refers to “a woman”, and the pronoun “they” refers back to “women.” In other words, “she” refers to any woman, and “they” refers to every woman. Hence, “she” is not a specific woman, but any woman who is represented by the woman Eve. Schatz’s argument fails at least as long as this is a live alternative.
Second, although the nearest candidate for a pronoun antecedent is often correct, we must remember that context is king. As I’ve argued above, we ought to understand γυναικὶ as an indefinite noun referring to any woman. Hence, we choose the antecedent for the pronoun “she” that makes the best sense in the context.
Third, Schatz’s view leads her to the untenable conclusion that a husband and wife are in view. But this conclusion has been answered by Michael R. Riley in his paper “The Proper Translation of Aner and Gune in the New Testament.”9
In conclusion, Schatz’s view has several problems. Among them:
- 1. Schatz fails to take proper account of the context. Specifically, the verses that precede verses 11-12 where Paul is giving instructions for men and women (plural).
2. Schatz violates a basic principle of hermeneutics by making an interpretive key out of what many interpreters have recognized is an unclear verse (15). The clear verses should interpret the unclear.
3. Her conclusion that “she” refers to a specific woman and “they” refers to the woman and her husband follows from a false dilemma.
4. Her explanation of the summary citation lacks the explanatory power of the patriarchalist interpretation, especially with respect to verse 13.
5. Her position naturally leads to an untenable conclusion that a wife and her husband are meant. Riley demonstrates that the grammatical and contextual clues necessary to establish this conclusion are absent.
1 See especially http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2007/09/30/the-rest-of-the-story-1-timothy-211-15-and-matt-slick/ (accessed May 4, 2009).
2 http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom43.iii.iv.iv.html
3 Keister, Lane. “Women in the Church – 1 Timothy 2:8-15, part 2.” Weblog entry. Greenbaggins. 20 November 2006. 29 April 2009. < http://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2006/11/20/women-in-the-church-1-timothy-28-15-part-2/>
4http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/05/30/neopatriarch-fails-to-refute-cheryl/
5 Huttar, David K. “Causal Gar in 1 Timothy 2:13.” Journal for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. 11.1 (Spring 2006): 30-33. < http://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-11-No-1/Causal-Gar-in-1-Timothy-2-13>.
6 Grudem, Wayne. Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth: An Analysis of More Than 100 Disputed Questions. Multnomah Publishers, Inc.. 2004. 117-121. (Available online at http://www.efbt100.com/).
7 Köstenberger, Andreas J. “Saved Through Childbearing? A Fresh Look at 1 Timothy 2:15 Points to Protection from Satan’s Deception.” Journal for Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. 2.4 (Fall 1997): 5 < http://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-2-No-4/Saved-Through-Childbearing>
8 MacArthur, John. “God’s High Calling for Women–Part 4” Bible Bulletin Board. May 4, 2009. < http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg54-17.htm>
9 Riley, Michael R. “The Proper Translation of Aner and Gune in the New Testament.” Conference paper. April 19, 1993. (see especially 19-23). < http://www.bible-researcher.com/aner.pdf>
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Schatz is joking, isn’t she? She’s saying that Paul was talking about only one woman?
Of course, she channels the Apostle Paul, so she must know.
Sorry to be sarcastic, but for goodness sake. What is she talking about?
Okay, for the sake of argument, let’s say that Paul was talking about one woman and only one woman. Why would he want any other women to act differently? What were all the other women doing, then? Wouldn’t they have been doing already what Paul wanted this one woman to do?
They weren’t teaching or exerciseing authority over the men, but already were silent and godly.
No matter how you get there – saying that Paul was talking about one woman or about all women – you arrive at the same place. Women, know your place, and be happy there. Godly women have always known that.
The woman who doesn’t, needs to get a clue.
Hey, keep up the good work.
I find it funny that Cheryl would attack you for not defending your viewpoint there. She blocks people’s posts, erases ones that she has allowed through, or gives people tongue-lashings if they dare to venture into her domain if they are not praising her for her brilliance!
Hey, maybe she’ll post about me for daring to talk to you!
Oh, well…
God bless, Christ, and thank you for your great work.
Mrs. Webfoot
Chris, this is beautifully done.
I’ll resist making sarcastic comments. This is serious error that you are carefully refuting. Again, even IF Paul were talking about one wife and her husband, why would he want any wife to exercise authority over and teach her husband or other women’s husbands? What is true for one wife would be true for all wives in the church, it seems to me.
Why would he single out one woman and not be using her as the example for all the rest of the women, even if he were talking about only one woman? It makes no sense.
I hope that you do more and that your voice is heard. I’m reading, FWIW.
What is this wife’s name, anyway, if she exists? If Paul were talking about one woman, he would have used the definite article – “the woman” – or a demonstrative pronoun, “that or this wife” or “that or this woman”, wouldn’t he?
Of course, the definite article is often used like a demonstrative pronoun. The absense of the definite article makes it, well, indefinite. It’s just any woman in the church, not one woman in particular.
Sadly, such pseudo-scholarship fools a lot of women. I don’t have the skills that you do. I’m gald that you are working at refuting Cheryl Schatz. I don’t know if anyone has. She has a lot of influence over some women.
Why do you call yourself “neopatriarch”? What is that? Are there more like you?
God bless,
Mrs. Webfoot
Hello Mrs. Webfoot,
Regarding your query, I chose “neopatriarch” partly because I’m a new father. I now have two little girls. But also, God is “the Father from whom all fatherhood takes its name in heaven and on earth” (Eph 3:14) and so I recognize that biblical patriarchy must ultimately find its basis in God and who He is.
BTW, I consider myself a layman, and if I as a layman can refute Schatz, how much more could a scholar like Grudem?!
Thank you for the explanation, Chris. Congratulations to you and your wife for your two little girls.
I have been thinking about how patricentric Jesus was during the time of His humiliation. Why would it be wrong for us as Christians to also be focused on our Heavenly Father?
To the Father, through the Son, in the Holy Spirit.
It seems to me that there would be an application for the Christian family. No, we don’t worship our earthly fathers, but there is something special about fatherhood and motherhood. God Himself made the distinction between the two. A father is much more than just a male parent and a mother is much more than just a female parent.
God bless you, Chris, in your family, your work, and your blog,
Mrs. Webfoot
I don’t think your layman approach worked. Your refutation has been refuted.
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/05/30/neopatriarch-fails-to-refute-cheryl/
I’ve seen her response. Frankly, I thought it was unpersuasive.
Keep in mind, first, my goal was to respond specifically to her claim that Paul is referring to one particular woman. I endeavored to keep the scope of my argument limited to that question. Second, I tried to address what might be considered her strongest arguments for her contention that one particular woman is in view. IMO, her response is full of weak and failing arguments that hardly shift the burden of proof back to the patriarchalist (or complementarian). I feel no special need to craft a response to it since it doesn’t take a genius to figure out where she went wrong. Third, I realized she may never be convinced that I’ve made my case. In my experience, such obstinate, anti-patriarchal skepticism is often terminal. So, I’m not really trying to convince her (but the Father is strong; he may still turn her) so much as provide an apologetic for any interested party or unwary believer who might stumble across her arguments.
Nevertheless, I may revise and upgrade my post if I feel inclined to do so. But I’m fairly busy right now so I don’t have much time to work on it.
After reading her refutation, I can see why you can’t be bothered to respond. Her point is strong and her refutation of your review stands. It is one thing to claim that her response is weak and another thing to prove it. I am sure that another attempt of yours would be promptly refuted. Why don’t you try to interact on her blog? The fact is that you appear unable to answer her and your attempt to provide an apologetic for any unwary believer comes across as rather cowardly since you didn’t even mention that she had answered you. That wasn’t a moot point that you should miss it. If her arguments were so weak it would take no brains at all to refute. Your concern that she may not be convinced by your case shows a weakness in your argument. If you were confident about your points you would answer her on her own blog and show the world your words of wisdom. If you are concerned that she will further show where your argument is weak, then perhaps you should stay here. Those who claim that they have resolved the problems should be willing to be tested. It is with sadness that I say you appear unwilling to expose yourself to the open test. Go where she is and speak your mind. I will watch and see how you do. I am not confident at all that you can figure this one out. But I do not feel the need to convince you to be an apologist. Maybe your gifts are in other areas.
I saw a notice that Happy Promise Keeper posted here but his comment is now missing. That is interesting. It looks like HPK’s posts are being removed from more than egalitarian sites. I can understand why you did that neopatriarch. I did a check on the internet for Happy Promise Keeper’s posts and let’s just say they were inflammatory. It appears that he comes around to poke, jab, accuse and then leave while taunting blogs to post his comments. From an outsider point of view that isn’t a good example. I am enjoying seeing both sides of the argument but I am not interested in personal accusations like HPK has made and I pass on my appreciation for your wise removal of the comment. You have my admiration for trying to be somewhat fair.
Let’s all please try to stick to relevant and substantive arguments. This includes ad hominems. I will delete invalid ad hominems, 9th commandment violations, and such like. And please forgive me if I miss some. I’m terribly busy keeping up with life, family, college (been drinking from the fire hose), and etcetera.
I am surprised that you let Mrs. Webfoot’s accusation through. You probably should have deleted her accusations. Or maybe this blog is about allowing personal attacks? You are wise to keep it above board.
Why won’t you interact with Schatz on her blog? She has posted another response to your refutation. Are you going to let her response stand? Don’t you realize how many people read her blog.
“In other words, “she” refers to any woman, and “they” refers to every woman. Hence, “she” is not a specific woman, but any woman who is represented by the woman Eve.”
So, any Christian woman can be said to be in transgression right now because of her deception? Really?? This is confusing – could you please explain what you mean by this?
Hey Chris,
I’m not sure exactly what you’re asking, but, even as Christians, we still have a sinful nature and we still sin. For a quick answer, see:
http://reformedanswers.org/answer.asp/file/99857.qna/category/th/page/questions
Indeed, Paul himself said in 1 Timothy 1:15, “The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I *am* the foremost” (note the present tense).
So, I don’t really have a problem saying that Christian women continue to be sinners. We all are.
I think verse 14 may best be explained in terms of the congruent creation view. See Daniel Doriani, “Appendix 1: A History of the Interpretation of 1 Timothy 2,” in Women in the Church: A Fresh Analysis of 1 Timothy 2:9-15, ed. Andreas J. Kostenberger, Thomas R. Schreiner, and H. Scott Baldwin (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1995).
BTW, Schatz has misunderstood my position since she believes I’m making the salvation of any woman dependent on all women continuing in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control. I believe Kostenberger has the right view on this in his paper ““Saved Through Childbearing? A Fresh Look at 1 Timothy 2:15 Points to Protection from Satan’s Deception” (see reference #7 in my post). Please read my references so you can better understand my position on this.
Ironically, it seems that Schatz’s view is more vulnerable to this criticism than mine is. Schatz would have the salvation of that one specific woman dependent on the one specific man or perhaps the woman’s husband. In either case, the woman’s salvation through the Messiah is dependent on someone else.
Man, you have been refuted once again with your updated post http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/09/30/neopatriarch-once-again-fails-to-refute-cheryl-schatz/ She also has an award for you on her page for at least trying. I think you should pick it up because you did try. You tried to do it in a nice way. That deserves something.
K. Bear, you do understand the difference between a response and a refutation, don’t you? Just because Cheryl has responded to what Chris said doesn’t mean that she refuted Chris’ arguments.
You know that, don’t you. Sometimes a person doesn’t need to keep on responding when there has been no real refutation.
I think that’s the case with Chris’ exchange with Cheryl, but each one is free to make up his or her own mind.
Webfoot, I was thinking the same thing.
Also, it’s good to keep in mind that demonstrative proofs are audience-relative, and some audiences will complain ad nauseam that you haven’t proven your case simply because they are offended by your conclusions.
Nevertheless, if I have the time and am willing to do so, I may develop some sections more. But I have ideas for other posts in the works right now.
Hi, K. Bear,
It’s nice to meet you, I think. What accusation are you talking about?
Thank you,
Mrs. Webfoot
“Eve, Paul implies, was not kept safe at the Fall; she was deceived. Why? Because she left her proper domain under her husband’s care.”
“So, I don’t have a problem with saying that Christian women continue to be sinners. We all are.”
I agree, we are all sinners. So, I do not understand how we could now expect to have a different outcome if a present day “Eve” gives some forbidden fruit to her “Adam” husband?”
“When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.” Genesis 3:6
But Eve never left a proposed “proper domain under her husband’s care.” Verse 6 states that he “was with her” there and did nothing to “care” for her, but did the opposite and joined right in eating and later tried to place blame on Eve for it by saying, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me…”
“How can women under Timothy’s charge (and in churches everywhere) avoid repeating the same mistake?”
Since that model didn’t work for Adam and Eve, then it makes no sense to say that now we somehow could avoid the same mistake by continuing to follow it.
So, we are supposed to believe Paul is saying that it’s somehow better to follow “Adams” who sin knowingly, rather than risk sinning due to deception? I just can’t find anything in Scripture that says sinning on purpose is superior to sinning due to deception. To me, it sounds like saying that thumbing your nose at God is better than accidentally sinning.
And where does that leave single and/or childless women? Not every woman gets a marriage proposal. Why did Paul write “to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I” and “the woman who is unmarried, and the virgin, is concerned about the things of the Lord…this I say for your benefit..to promote what is appropriate and secure undistracted devotion to the Lord.” (I Cor. 7) if they were actually supposed to be adhering to a different “God-ordained calling including a focus on marriage, family, and the home.”?
I also do not see how we can say for sure that Eve was told to stay under Adam’s care, since there is no verse stating that. The other thing we also don’t know for sure is who told Eve not to eat the fruit or why Adam didn’t correct her misstating the prohibition since he “was with her” at the time.
I am really trying to understand your viewpoint here.
I am not ready to come down on one side or the other of this issue. For me, there seem to be a lot of blank spots in both views.
Still not helping me? – well, o.k. back to Schatz’s blog to see if I can get some answers there.